Obama's VP has to be Hillary or a Hillary supporter

by New York Democrat, Tue Jul 29, 2008 at 01:59:55 PM EST

It's insulting.  If Obama does not pick Hillary, he has to pick an original Hillary supporter. If he picks a woman who backed Obama over Hillary (think: Sebelius, or McCaskill) then it's even more of an insult.  If Obama does this, all the wounds of the primaries will open again, I fear.  




Tags: Clinton, VP (all tags)

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Your concern is noted. (nt) (2.00 / 7)


Proud member of the Wikipedia Generation of American politics
by BishopRook on Tue Jul 29, 2008 at 02:01:05 PM EST

funny article about Angelina Jolie's bitter father (none / 0)

from Huff Po Entertainment:

Jon Voight accused Barack Obama of "sowing socialist seeds in young people" for an op-ed published in the Washington Times on Monday.

Writing on behalf of "we, as parents," Voight blamed the Democrats for waging a propaganda campaign against America's youth and insisted Obama is weak on terror.

Here are some excerpts:

On Obama's ties to "militant white and black people":

   Sen. Barack Obama has grown up with the teaching of very angry, militant white and black people: the Rev. Jeremiah Wright, Louis Farrakhan, William Ayers and Rev. Michael Pfleger. We cannot say we are not affected by teachers who are militant and angry. We know too well that we become like them, and Mr. Obama will run this country in their mindset.

On Obama's God-like stature:

   The Democratic Party, in its quest for power, has managed a propaganda campaign with subliminal messages, creating a God-like figure in a man who falls short in every way. It seems to me that if Mr. Obama wins the presidential election, then Messrs. Farrakhan, Wright, Ayers and Pfleger will gain power for their need to demoralize this country and help create a socialist America.

On 1960s "hysteria":

   The Democrats have targeted young people, knowing how easy it is to bring forth whatever is needed to program their minds. I know this process well. I was caught up in the hysteria during the Vietnam era, which was brought about through Marxist propaganda underlying the so-called peace movement. The radicals of that era were successful in giving the communists power to bring forth the killing fields and slaughter 2.5 million people in Cambodia and South Vietnam. Did they stop the war, or did they bring the war to those innocent people? In the end, they turned their backs on all the horror and suffering they helped create and walked away.

On Obama's homeland security credentials:

   There's not a cell in my body that can accept the idea that Mr. Obama can keep us safe from the terrorists around the world, and from Iran, which is making great strides toward getting the atomic bomb.

Voight closes by warning Obama plans to usher in a "socialist era":

   This is a perilous time, and more than ever, the world needs a united and strong America. If, God forbid, we live to see Mr. Obama president, we will live through a socialist era that America has not seen before, and our country will be weakened in every way.


by DemsLandslide2008 on Tue Jul 29, 2008 at 02:02:10 PM EST

Re: funny article about Angelina (none / 0)

If Angelina Jolie is like her father, than you have to wonder why Brad hooked up with her when he ditched Jennifer because she was a repug.


by Spanky on Tue Jul 29, 2008 at 02:20:13 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: funny article about Angelina (2.00 / 1)

Angelina Jolie is not like her father.


Proud member of the Wikipedia Generation of American politics
by BishopRook on Tue Jul 29, 2008 at 02:23:13 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: funny article about Angelina (none / 0)

In the first place, she is a far better actor than he ever was. In the second place, she is far more liberal.


"The true measure of a man is how he treats someone who can do him absolutely no good." Samuel Johnson
by MS01 Indie on Tue Jul 29, 2008 at 02:34:01 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Nah (none / 0)

maybe right now, but over their career his quality of performances blows her out of the water.


"Is there no keeping with class in whom we mingle with anymore?"
by Brandon on Tue Jul 29, 2008 at 02:38:35 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Nah (none / 0)

Are you kidding me? He's an over-acting hack. Oscar or no oscar.


"The true measure of a man is how he treats someone who can do him absolutely no good." Samuel Johnson
by MS01 Indie on Tue Jul 29, 2008 at 02:41:16 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Currently he is (none / 0)

But not over the course of his career.  I have that rare ability to not really factor in my own political bias measuring entertainers. He has not made a good film in over 15 years, but his body of work is superior to hers.  Angelina does get roles in skin tight suits for nothing, she isnt there because she is the reincarnation of Brando.  Tombraider? Mr and Ms Smith? Fun films, but by no means acting triumphs.


"Is there no keeping with class in whom we mingle with anymore?"
by Brandon on Tue Jul 29, 2008 at 02:45:33 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: funny article about Angelina (none / 0)

Jennifer Anniston isn't a Republican, she maxed out in Obama donations and called Bush a f*cking idiot.  Angelina said that she's not a liberal and hasn't decided who she's voting for.

"OMG!" I can't believe I know this crap or that we're discussing it.


by Renie on Tue Jul 29, 2008 at 03:19:23 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: funny article about Angelina (none / 0)

Jennifer Anniston id a repug?!?!

OMG, that ruins about 38 of my most cherished fantasies.

;)


I'm as strong as a bull moose, and you can use me to the limit. - Teddy Roosevelt
by fogiv on Tue Jul 29, 2008 at 03:26:37 PM EST
[ Parent ]

ha! (none / 0)

I KNEW Jon Voight was an asshole.  He's from my hometown - Yonkers, NY, so I've seen him now and again on local news.

I'm a big believer that you can often tell the character of people over the age of 45 or 50 by their faces - especially men.  If they've spent most of their lives scowling, their face sort of freezes that way - your wrinkles sort of form around the facial expressions you use the most.  It's why some old men look "kindly".

Jon Voight looks like a mean SOB.  Broken capillaries in his beady eyes, downturned creases at the corners of his mouth, just someone who I would avoid.  But I didn't have anything to confirm it until now.  What a loon.

Anyway, carry on.


I have that readiness.
by Jess81 on Tue Jul 29, 2008 at 03:30:39 PM EST
[ Parent ]

I saw him at the central park zoo (none / 0)

several months ago.  He was walking and holding hands with some young woman who couldn't have been over 25.  I've got nothing against May-December romance but it was pretty creepy.


by JJE on Tue Jul 29, 2008 at 04:16:16 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: I saw him at the central park zoo (none / 0)

He is actually VERY CREEPY. I worked in a furniture showroom and he used to come in everyday for a week and stare at the same sofa for over an hour. When I would try and talk to him he would mumble so badly you couldn't understand a word he said.


by venician on Tue Jul 29, 2008 at 04:19:57 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: I saw him at the central park zoo (none / 0)

Wow Im proud of myself.

I just went to Huff entertainment to grab an article to spam this troll diary with.  Never thought I would get this many replies!


by DemsLandslide2008 on Tue Jul 29, 2008 at 04:50:19 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Obama's VP has to be Hillary or a Hillary supp (2.00 / 2)

If he picks a woman who backed Obama over Hillary (think: Sebelius, or McCaskill) then it's even more of an insult.

Please explain why either of those women is unqualified to be vice president.  Bonus challenge: Do it without resorting to sexism.


Join the Matthew 25 Network and help Democrats win the next generation of evangelicals.
by mistersite on Tue Jul 29, 2008 at 02:02:29 PM EST

Re: Obama's VP has to be Hillary or a Hillary supp (2.00 / 1)

For myself as a former Clinton supporter, I'm not fond of either candidate.  Both were used as anti-Clinton attack dogs.  McCaskill has a history of being helped by Bill and Hillary Clinton, so there is the issue not just of loyalty, but of political opportunism and of stabbing your former ally in the back.

As for Sebelius, she was first out of the gate after Super Tuesday running the false narrative that the primary was now over and that Hillary Clinton should concede.  That narrative continued to pick up steam all through February (when the calendar was favorable to Barack).  IMHO, it was one of the most significant factors in Hillary Clinton's loss.  

I pray he doesn't choose either of these people as his running mate.  I'd hold my nose and vote, but I'd be very disappointed.  They are not well liked by some of us old Clinton supporters.


The universe is a casual place, not a suit-and-tie affair.
by mtnspirit on Tue Jul 29, 2008 at 02:20:48 PM EST
[ Parent ]

But simply because they attacked (2.00 / 1)

Clinton and supported Obama does not disqualify them for the VP role.  In fact, that just shows they're good attack dogs, the primary responsibility of the VP during the campaign.

I think Sebelius is a good pick because she was a governor who was elected and reelected in a Red state.  She seems to be good on the major issues as well.


"No government has the right to tell its citizens whom to love. The only queer people are those who don't love anybody." - Rita Mae Brown
by auboy2006 on Tue Jul 29, 2008 at 02:28:34 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Obama's VP has to be Hillary or a Hillary supp (2.00 / 2)

I'm so sick and tired of refighting the primaries and I'm sure that the reason is persists is because Clinton didn't leave when it was clear that the delegate math wasn't going to work for her. In my estimation, that was after the Potomac primaries.

Blaming people for pointing out that Clinton had virtually no chance of winning (when she really didn't at that point) for her not winning is like blaming people who study astronomical charts for predicting an eclipse.


We care about politics because we know politics matters for people's lives and opportunities.
by politicsmatters on Tue Jul 29, 2008 at 02:57:58 PM EST
[ Parent ]

in a trollish diary.... (none / 0)

spouting trollish points?  again - i will say the same thing i have said to you several times - why are you engaging?  and further - why are you spouting nonsense?

the race was mathematically over on the day of the last primaries.

please stop or else you will be viewed with the same goggles as the people you deplore.


"Democracy! Bah! When I hear that I reach for my feather Boa!" Allen Ginsberg
by canadian gal on Tue Jul 29, 2008 at 03:12:48 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: in a trollish diary.... (none / 0)

You're right - I shouldn't engage.

But that doesn't mean I won't sometime.

And it is nonsense to think that Clinton wasn't eliminated months before the end of the primary process. Anyone who could do the math knew it, but that was systematically ignored and mocked by people who thought that the supers would magically swoop in and give the nomination to the person who didn't win the delegates.  It was never going to happen - never - there were anonymous Clinton staff quoted in articles who said they knew they had a 5% chance at most.

Candidates usually drop out when they run out of money and can't win. Hillary didn't. All that got her was a load of debt that she is far from paying (although Mr. PUMA claimed they paid it off weeks ago).And it got the Dems good and mad at each other.


We care about politics because we know politics matters for people's lives and opportunities.
by politicsmatters on Tue Jul 29, 2008 at 04:39:23 PM EST
[ Parent ]

magically swoop in? (none / 0)

you do know why supers were created right?  hint:  the answer is not to ratify the delegate count.


"Democracy! Bah! When I hear that I reach for my feather Boa!" Allen Ginsberg
by canadian gal on Tue Jul 29, 2008 at 04:48:19 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: magically swoop in? (none / 0)

I am really sick of this line. It just isn't true!

Supers were not created to pick the nominee, but to ratify the nominee, to make the lead larger and more substantial -- just like the electoral college usually does.

I'm really tired of reading this from people who have minimal knowledge of the history of American political parties.  My scholarly knowledge goes back to the first course I took on political parties, that happened to be an undergraduate one around 1982, when we read the McGovern-Fraser report and I have kept up in the field.

Don't believe me? Fine.  Look at this:

One superdelegate, David E. Price, was a member of the Hunt Commission, which created the superdelegate system in the early 1980s.

"The fact is that the unpledged delegate group was added not to be kingmakers or queenmakers but simply to give each state a few extra slots without having to sign in blood for a presidential candidate or run against their own constituents," he said. "I don't think anyone thought this would be the decisive voting bloc, let alone overturn a popular verdict."
http://www.nytimes.com/2008/04/26/us/pol itics/26delegates.html?fta=y


We care about politics because we know politics matters for people's lives and opportunities.
by politicsmatters on Tue Jul 29, 2008 at 05:04:29 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: magically swoop in? (2.00 / 1)

And, canadian gal, can the attitude.  You were patronizing above and snippy in this last comment.  


We care about politics because we know politics matters for people's lives and opportunities.
by politicsmatters on Tue Jul 29, 2008 at 05:14:12 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: magically swoop in? (none / 0)

you're right canadian gal. supers were not created to ratify the voters. So does it make you feel better to know the supers thought Obama the better candidate for the party and themselves? They saw he was registering new voters and raking in money and they wanted to be on that team. So they were glad to make it appear that they were simply ratifying the delegate count.


by Lolis on Tue Jul 29, 2008 at 06:18:32 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: in a trollish diary.... (none / 0)

CG Lighten up. A condecending attitude isn't what we need here. This is mydd not MyCg


by Politicalslave on Tue Jul 29, 2008 at 06:44:39 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Would be Tough to Pull the Lever for One of these (none / 0)

 


by activatedbybush on Tue Jul 29, 2008 at 03:12:47 PM EST
[ Parent ]

It's tokenism (1.80 / 5)

I see your point. But Hillary got more primary votes in three out of four of CNN's tallying formulas. In only one out of four did Obama get more votes.

It's like Bush "winning" in 2000, it never seemed legit until he was reelected in 2004.


by catfish2 on Tue Jul 29, 2008 at 02:20:51 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: It's tokenism (none / 0)

How is it tokenism to pick a governor from a Red state in an attempt to win over indies and even Republicans?  Someone who supported Obama all along.


"No government has the right to tell its citizens whom to love. The only queer people are those who don't love anybody." - Rita Mae Brown
by auboy2006 on Tue Jul 29, 2008 at 02:29:49 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: It's tokenism (2.00 / 1)

it is tokenism according to Hillary supporters who believe that Hillary is the only woman capable of handling the role and another woman would be seen as trying to woo CLinton supporters based on her sex alone.  If this train of thought comes from mostly Clinton supporting women, it is likely the the most bizzare political double-standard/reverse sexist talking point I have ever seen.  I numbs the mind.


by KLRinLA on Tue Jul 29, 2008 at 04:12:51 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: It's tokenism (2.00 / 1)

or rather "It numbs the mind"


by KLRinLA on Tue Jul 29, 2008 at 04:13:14 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: It's tokenism (2.00 / 6)

Fuck, not this shit again.

There is no such thing as a popular vote total in a primary campaign.

There are 55 completely independent regional contests, with some being closed caucuses, some being open caucuses, some being closed primaries, some being open primaries, and some being an ungodly hybrid of all the above.

In some cases there are two contests where only one actually matters (Washington), in some cases there are two contests where both matter (Texas).

There is absolutely no way to get a "popular vote" total for the primary, no matter how many different ways you try to count it.

He won.  She lost.  They both would be preferable to McCain.  Now it's time to get on board or get left on the dock.  And as much as we want you to come along, make no mistake, we don't need you to win.

</rant>

Now, let's try again.  Why would Sebelius or McCaskill be unqualified for the position?


Proud member of the Wikipedia Generation of American politics
by BishopRook on Tue Jul 29, 2008 at 02:30:58 PM EST
[ Parent ]

It's hard to understand popularity (none / 0)

of someone you can't stand. Don't worry, you're not the only one who doesn't get it.

But you have to count votes to figure out who won. So in that case, there happens to be a popular vote total. At one point, Pelosi said the superdelegates should pick the popular vote leader, not the delegate leader, but she quickly changed to saying supers should pick the delegate leader.


by catfish2 on Tue Jul 29, 2008 at 02:46:59 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: It's hard to understand popularity (2.00 / 2)

You probably shouldn't put words in my mouth about Sen. Clinton.  I've defended her more times than not, and I'd be happy to see her as VP on the ticket.

And when you have so many different ways of voting which all require different levels of time, effort, and participation, along with some allowing Independents and/or Republicans while others don't, it's apples-to-oranges to add them all together.  It would be like throwing 20 dollars, 100 yen, 15 euros, and 80 rupees in a hat and saying "I have 215 units of currency, that's more than your units of currency!"


Proud member of the Wikipedia Generation of American politics
by BishopRook on Tue Jul 29, 2008 at 02:59:53 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: It's tokenism (2.00 / 0)

Thanks for the popular vote smackdown. Those who are still trafficking in that canard are either completely intellectually bankrupt, or think they can still manipulate opinion by promoting falsehoods if they just keep repeating them.

And I see your question still hasn't been answered.


Know Your Rights!
by BobzCat on Tue Jul 29, 2008 at 03:34:40 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: It's tokenism (2.00 / 3)

Have fun at Alegre's Corner!


We care about politics because we know politics matters for people's lives and opportunities.
by politicsmatters on Tue Jul 29, 2008 at 02:58:51 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: It's tokenism (2.00 / 2)

Here's the problem with your thinking: You're assuming that Obama would pick Sebelius or McCaskill because they're women.  If you're going to pick a woman, why not pick the woman who got a lot of votes?  It's sound thinking, but only if you accept the initial premise.  I'm inclined to think that Obama's reasoning is a bit different.

Sebelius in particular would be a good choice for other reasons.  She's a Democratic governor who's been elected and re-elected in a very conservative state, and yet she's taken on the health insurance industry and won.  She's got a good record of public service and success at every level.   And she's a Washington outsider, reinforcing Obama's message of change in a way that Hillary Clinton, whose campaign was based on her being the consummate insider, couldn't.  

In short, if she were a man, there'd be no question about her being on a short list.  Why should Hillary Clinton's candidacy create a second glass ceiling above which only women named Hillary Clinton can rise?


Join the Matthew 25 Network and help Democrats win the next generation of evangelicals.
by mistersite on Tue Jul 29, 2008 at 03:30:31 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: It's tokenism (2.00 / 1)

Maybe but at Poblanos site Obama won by 4 out of 6 different counts.


by venician on Tue Jul 29, 2008 at 04:15:58 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: It's tokenism (2.00 / 1)


   Catfish, that's not true.

  The only way Hillary Clinton got more votes than Obama is by the selective method that Hillary's campaign demanded be used.

  Which, as I recall, involved not counting any states that held a caucus.

  Hillary Clinton did not receive the most votes. She did not receive the most delegates. She did not win the most contests. She did not raise the most money. She did not win anything.


by southernman on Tue Jul 29, 2008 at 06:30:13 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Obama's VP has to be Hillary or a Hillary supp (none / 0)

I don't think the argument is that they are unqualified. The argumen has nothing to do with alleged qualifications but as to whether this pick is seen as deliberate insult to Clinton and her die hard supporters. For example, let's say it was Clinton who won and Obama who came in second by the same margin of delegates. Can't you see how some Obama supporters MIGHT be upset if Clinton were then to pick a different black man who backed her for Veep? What if she picked Rodney Slater, Wellington Webb, William Gray or Emmanuel Cleaver?


by Mayor McCheese on Tue Jul 29, 2008 at 03:26:27 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Obama's VP has to be Hillary or a Hillary supp (2.00 / 1)

Are any of those four people sitting governors or Senators?  If Kathleen Sebelius were Karl Sebelius, there would be absolutely no question about his being too inexperienced to be on a short list, just as there isn't with Tim Kaine.


Join the Matthew 25 Network and help Democrats win the next generation of evangelicals.
by mistersite on Tue Jul 29, 2008 at 03:32:00 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Obama's VP has to be Hillary or a Hillary supp (none / 0)

Totally irrelevant. And those four people are just hypotheticals anway. It could be any number of African americans. The point isn't that that Clinton backers don't like their experience, (although some won't) it's that they might feel disrepected if Obama picks someone in a way that isn't seen as reaching out to them. William Gray, in my example, is probably more qualifed to be president than Obama is. But don't you think its at least possible that Hillary picking him could put some Obama backers off?


by Mayor McCheese on Tue Jul 29, 2008 at 03:39:30 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Obama's VP has to be Hillary or a Hillary supp (2.00 / 0)

It's not irrelevant - the point is that there are no reasonable black VP picks, so if Hillary Clinton chose one it would of necessity be tokenism.  I mean Wellington Webb?  Seriously?

Whereas the women on Obama's shortlist would all be obvious choices if they were men.


I have that readiness.
by Jess81 on Tue Jul 29, 2008 at 03:47:02 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Obama's VP has to be Hillary or a Hillary supp (none / 0)

Sersiouly, why not Webb if Ann Venneman is supposedly being vetted? And as I mentioned above, William Gray is probably more qualified to be president than Obama is


by Mayor McCheese on Tue Jul 29, 2008 at 03:58:39 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Obama's VP has to be Hillary or a Hillary supp (none / 0)

I hate this counter argument.  I supported Obama from the get go, but there are many many other qualified black politicians, some of whom supported Hillary in the primaries.
If she won and chose John Lewis or Charlie Rangel (yeah i know, this is just a hypothetical) I would still vote for her in a NY minute
by rhatermike on Tue Jul 29, 2008 at 07:53:29 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Show your grandkids (none / 0)

Europe loves America!


by DemsLandslide2008 on Tue Jul 29, 2008 at 02:04:50 PM EST

Re: Obama's VP has (2.00 / 2)

Thank you for your concern.


by Reaper0Bot0 on Tue Jul 29, 2008 at 02:05:12 PM EST

Re: Obama's VP has to be Hillary or a Hillary supp (2.00 / 4)

This diary is insulting. It isn't a diary, it is a comment. There are other diaries about the VP selection process. You could have posted this in any one of them.


"The true measure of a man is how he treats someone who can do him absolutely no good." Samuel Johnson
by MS01 Indie on Tue Jul 29, 2008 at 02:05:51 PM EST

Can you do two things? (2.00 / 1)

Make this a real diary not a 53 word comment?

Explain your position as more than an appeal to emotion?

Otherwise it makes you look petty.


by notedgeways on Tue Jul 29, 2008 at 02:12:11 PM EST

Re: Obama's VP has to be Hillary or a Hillary supp (none / 0)

If Obama does this, all the wounds of the primaries will open again, I fear.

Let us not look back in anger or forward in fear, but around in awareness.


Faced with the choice between changing one's mind and proving that there is no need to do so, almost everyone gets busy on the proof.
by jsfox on Tue Jul 29, 2008 at 02:15:14 PM EST

Here we go again (2.00 / 1)

It is not your damn choice. At this point I dont' give a damn. If you aren't going to vote for Obama because he doesn't pick your choice. Fine.

I'm so damn tired of white people pouting and acting like asses because it's there way or the highway.

Get over this.  It is amazing the double standard that Barack has to go through because of some whiny white Clinton supporters.


by sweet potato pie on Tue Jul 29, 2008 at 02:17:25 PM EST

Re: Here we go again (2.00 / 0)

I know this is totally inappropriate, but LOL!

Sorry, but sometime the blatant voicing of a certain amount of truth brings a smile to my face.


Faced with the choice between changing one's mind and proving that there is no need to do so, almost everyone gets busy on the proof.
by jsfox on Tue Jul 29, 2008 at 02:20:04 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Here we go again (none / 0)

Well, I know some blacks who may not support Obama.

The sad thing about this is people's lack of control over allowing others to voice their opinions--in this case, their lack of support for Obama.  

I know personally for me it's a thing I have against the Media, how the MSM tore down Hillary and praise Obama. That's an analogy that I can not understand.


by Check077 on Tue Jul 29, 2008 at 02:40:46 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Here we go again (2.00 / 2)

The sad thing about this is people's lack of control over allowing others to voice their opinions--in this case, their lack of support for Obama.

What do you mean?  The diarist and others like him/her are being allowed to voice their opinions.  This diary is still up.  Why should those who disagree with the diarist, or think his/her thinking is foolish, not be allowed to express their opinions?


Join the Matthew 25 Network and help Democrats win the next generation of evangelicals.
by mistersite on Tue Jul 29, 2008 at 03:34:27 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Here we go again (2.00 / 0)

Oh really? I know one black who isn't supporting Barack and he is half black and is typical of the whiny ass white Clinton supporters. He is soo used to being "right" all the time that Clinton losing is like him finally being "wrong."

So be angry at the media. Obama doesn't control the media white folks do.  Is that a reason not to vote for him?

Give me a break.


by sweet potato pie on Tue Jul 29, 2008 at 04:09:33 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Here we go again (none / 0)

Clearly in your world, it's all white people's fault. Do you know how completely prejudiced you sound? Racial stereotyping is unbecoming behavior by anyone of any ethnic background.


by LakersFan on Tue Jul 29, 2008 at 07:23:11 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Obama's VP has to be Hillary or a (none / 0)

K.


by rfahey22 on Tue Jul 29, 2008 at 02:21:03 PM EST

Some people just don't understand this (2.00 / 1)

And they don't understand politics. You govern with the CONSENT of the governed. They don't get it.


by catfish2 on Tue Jul 29, 2008 at 02:22:03 PM EST

If Obama wins (2.00 / 0)

he'll have the consent of the governed.

The irony is pretty thick here from you considering all the "SEAT FLORIDA AND MICHIGAN" nonsense completely violated that principle.


by JJE on Tue Jul 29, 2008 at 02:30:27 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Right. Counting votes (none / 0)

violates the consent of the governed.


by catfish2 on Tue Jul 29, 2008 at 03:05:30 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Right. Counting votes (2.00 / 3)

And Robert Mugabe got the most votes in Zimbabwe too.  I think you sort of missed the point of the diary, or you didn't bother to read it.  Probably both.

An unfair election is no election at all.


Proud member of the Wikipedia Generation of American politics
by BishopRook on Tue Jul 29, 2008 at 03:11:57 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Mugabe - re-read that story (none / 0)

Mugabe did not get the most real votes. Everybody knows that. That was the whole story.

Mugabe got fewer votes that his opponent, so he held a runoff. Then his opponent dropped out because his supporters were getting murdered. He's illegitimate.


by catfish2 on Tue Jul 29, 2008 at 03:31:30 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Uninformed consent (none / 0)

is not consent.  Pretty simple.


by JJE on Tue Jul 29, 2008 at 03:14:24 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Yawn (2.00 / 2)

If this were a real diary I'd make a substantial comment but since it is a comment masquerading as a diary I will merely mock it.

This diary is as cool as the core of a yellow sun.


The guy advising John McCain on the economy thinks you are a whiner.
by Sanguine Giant on Tue Jul 29, 2008 at 02:25:39 PM EST

Looks like those 18 million cracks (2.00 / 5)

were really just one big crack, shaped in the form of Hillary and no other women can fit through.  Shame.


by JJE on Tue Jul 29, 2008 at 02:25:49 PM EST

Re: Looks like those 18 million cracks (none / 0)

18 million Clinton supporters were not voting for the "woman" candidate. We were voting for the candidate we felt was most qualified. It's a rather sexist and simplistic view to assume that Clinton voters supported her only because she is a woman, and that because we vote for one woman, we should support any woman.


by LakersFan on Tue Jul 29, 2008 at 07:12:15 PM EST
[ Parent ]

The logic escapes me.... (2.00 / 1)

Sorry, this the equivalent of the Big-Kitty statement I heard on TV that said:

I am an outraged Feminist who thinks the media was totally sexist, so I am voting for McCain to punish the Democratic party?"

What?  

Why isn't picking ANYONE besides Clinton an insult, why pick on other women and make them part of your hold-over anger?

If he picks Bayh, is HE more qualified then Clinton?  

Would you be JUST as outraged then?

And, WHY does the fact he is a Clinton supporter make him more acceptable?

You folks are STILL in the bargaining phase, I don't get it.

BTW, this has NOTHING to do with whom I would prefer.

My choices are Wes Clark, then Senator Clinton.

So, I'm going to be unhappy if he picks Bayh, then I am going to get back to trying to get a Democrat into the WH.


On Nov 4th, Barack Obama officially ends the Southern Strategy....
by WashStateBlue on Tue Jul 29, 2008 at 02:31:26 PM EST

Re: The logic escapes me.... (2.00 / 1)

My picks are Edwards, Clark, or Clinton. Pretty much in that order. Although, I'm warming to Sebilius and Kaine.


"The true measure of a man is how he treats someone who can do him absolutely no good." Samuel Johnson
by MS01 Indie on Tue Jul 29, 2008 at 02:38:56 PM EST
[ Parent ]

So Officially here at MyDD (1.00 / 2)

I can not make a statement about not wanting Hillary to be VP without getting hide rated, this is excellent news.  I am sure, now more then ever that I can never vote for her.


"Is there no keeping with class in whom we mingle with anymore?"
by Brandon on Tue Jul 29, 2008 at 02:55:29 PM EST

Don't stoop (none / 0)

to THEIR level. Let them be the whiny babies. Hillary will put them in their place.


The American people; they were for the war before they were against it.
by nrafter530 on Tue Jul 29, 2008 at 03:08:35 PM EST
[ Parent ]

nah - you don't stoop. (2.00 / 2)

this guy is a known troll.  even running around calling hillary leatherface a few days ago.  look at his sig line for god's sake.


"Democracy! Bah! When I hear that I reach for my feather Boa!" Allen Ginsberg
by canadian gal on Tue Jul 29, 2008 at 03:17:00 PM EST
[ Parent ]

I really Do not Like Hillary Clinton (1.00 / 1)

and freely admit it, how exactly does that make me a troll?


"Is there no keeping with class in whom we mingle with anymore?"
by Brandon on Tue Jul 29, 2008 at 03:19:13 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: I really Do not Like Hillary Clinton (2.00 / 5)

Nearly every comment you drop is meant to derail conversation and almost always takes a nasty jab at Hillary Clinton.  You're the Alpha to catfish2's Omega.  Both of you seem unable to help yourselves from taking petty partisan jabs at every opportunity.


And so, may evil beware and may good dress warmly and eat lots of fresh vegetables.
by thatpurplestuff on Tue Jul 29, 2008 at 03:40:15 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: I really Do not Like Hillary Clinton (2.00 / 3)

Wouldn't it be hilarious if they were the same person, engaging in some kind of political performance art?

Then, in October, a book appears about one person's experiences in split-personality, self-crossfire budget blogging, it hits a few talk-shows, and everyone has a good laugh about how easy it is to troll the internets for fun and profit.

It takes all kinds.


Know Your Rights!
by BobzCat on Tue Jul 29, 2008 at 04:37:33 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: I really Do not Like Hillary Clinton (2.00 / 1)

that would be trippy! I would more than likely purchase that book. sounds like a must read.


by alyssa chaos on Tue Jul 29, 2008 at 04:44:33 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: I really Do not Like Hillary Clinton (2.00 / 1)

You just made my head explode.


And so, may evil beware and may good dress warmly and eat lots of fresh vegetables.
by thatpurplestuff on Tue Jul 29, 2008 at 05:04:50 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Obama's VP has to be Hillary (none / 0)

Whatever the Obamanauts think and whatever the motives of this diarist, his basic premise is surely correct. When the announcement is made and if it's not Clinton all the wounds are going to reopen. If the Obamanauts don't realize the amount a ill feeling that's lurking out there they are kidding themselves. Given the electoral landscape, Obama's fantastic tour last week, the pathetic performance of the candidate he's up against, Obama should be comfortably in the lead. He's not. In fact the most recent national poll shows McCain ACTUALLY LEADING. Of course there were a million rationalisations for this shocker and I hope it's an outlier but if he goes into this election with a schism in the party he's out of his mind and so are his supporters.    


by ottovbvs on Tue Jul 29, 2008 at 03:18:43 PM EST

So, Evan Bayh is okay but (2.00 / 0)

Kathleen Sebelius isn't?

No, I don't buy that at all.  


by Geekesque on Tue Jul 29, 2008 at 04:01:27 PM EST
[ Parent ]

That poll has been debunked (none / 0)

and all tracking polls have him leading by about the same amount as Hillary.

So enough with the nonexistent party schism that doesn't exist.


The American people; they were for the war before they were against it.
by nrafter530 on Tue Jul 29, 2008 at 04:05:25 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: That poll has been debunked (1.00 / 0)

Debunked by whom? You. His lead in the RCP average is now 2.5%. If you think this is good what can I say. No there's no schism. Why don't you wait and see what the reaction if he doesn't pick her. Look I'm supporting the guy, he did a great job last week, McCain is a twit, but it ain't happening at present. This VP has the potential to cause enormous problems so why go looking for trouble. Unfortunately folks like you are either so consumed with Clinton hate or think Obama can do no wrong that you are in denial of a very obvious reality.  


by ottovbvs on Tue Jul 29, 2008 at 04:42:58 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: That poll has been debunked (2.00 / 0)

I think Clinton would be fine.

But it is patently absurd to claim that some other woman would be an insult to Clinton, as if her gender is the only aspect of candidates we should and do care about.


We care about politics because we know politics matters for people's lives and opportunities.
by politicsmatters on Tue Jul 29, 2008 at 05:06:43 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: That poll has been debunked (2.00 / 0)

This is what the DEADenders Never address.

There new form of reverse sexism.

What an embarrassment to the feminist movement.

These people not only set women back, but they set our party back (hey we are NOT supposed to be bigots, thats the GOP's job!)

But hey, thats America, the country that cant point itself out on a map.


by DemsLandslide2008 on Tue Jul 29, 2008 at 05:22:25 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Obama's VP has to be Hillary (none / 0)

Clinton herself needs to put the word out that her own goals, as well as those of the party and the country, are best advanced by her staying in the Senate.

I expect her to make that kind of announcement some time before Obama announces his VP choice.

Those Clinton supporters who actually still care about her will respond by respecting her decision and getting behind the ticket. We'll have an incredibly energized and united party coming out of Denver all the way to November.


Know Your Rights!
by BobzCat on Tue Jul 29, 2008 at 04:30:05 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Take me out to the ballgame! (2.00 / 1)

This reminds me of the Mickey Mantle/Roger Maris home run race of 1961.  

It was supposed to be the Mick who broke the record.  Ruth to Mantle.  A passing of the torch from one generation of Yankees sluggers to another.

The fans felt that only one Yankee was deserving and so, IN A RECORD SETTING SEASON (!!!), Roger Maris was booed and jeered...by the home town fans.  

He wasn't the right Yankee.  But he was the one who did it.

While I have no idea who Obama will pick, if he picks a woman for his VP nominee, and that woman isn't Clinton, the idea that some will see that as insulting to women...well, it's childish and petty.


No way. No how. No McCain.
by freedom78 on Tue Jul 29, 2008 at 03:22:12 PM EST

Re: Take me out to the ballgame! (none / 0)

Actually, I see a Joe Dimaggio/Mantle comparison.  One has been around for a long time and was popular, although pretty morally bankrupt.  The newer generation of Yankee fans embraced Dimaggio because the Mick was pretty much done, but the old guard did not truly accept Dimaggio until Mantle said it was ok, and even then, some of them were in complete denial still.


"Is there no keeping with class in whom we mingle with anymore?"
by Brandon on Tue Jul 29, 2008 at 03:47:45 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Take me out to the ballgame! (none / 0)

Think you got it backwards. Dimaggio was lot older than Mantle. He was playing for the Yanks when Mantle was a toddler.


by Mayor McCheese on Tue Jul 29, 2008 at 03:55:54 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Take me out to the ballgame! (none / 0)

There's a huge problem with your analogy: Childish and petty doesn't prevent people from voting, and Roger Maris didn't need anyone's votes to knock the ball out of the park.


by LakersFan on Tue Jul 29, 2008 at 06:58:48 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Take me out to the ballgame! (none / 0)

Didn't say anything about their ability/right to vote.  If someone is childish or petty enough to vote against their interests out of spite, then it's their own problem if it bites them in the ass.  


No way. No how. No McCain.
by freedom78 on Wed Jul 30, 2008 at 12:31:35 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re (2.00 / 1)

This is getting so confusing. For a while it would be insulting to Hillary for her to even be considered as VP because she deserved nothing less than the presidency.

Now she has to be VP or else? Which is it?

He should pick who he feels most comfortable with and who he believes will help him win. That is all. If it's Clinton - great, if it's not - great.


by PSUdan on Tue Jul 29, 2008 at 03:48:35 PM EST

This isn't a diary. (2.00 / 1)

It's barely a comment, and not a very interesting or informative one at that.


by Geekesque on Tue Jul 29, 2008 at 04:00:25 PM EST

Re: Obama's VP has to be Hillary or a Hillary supp (2.00 / 1)

And a four sentence diary gets on the rec list.Sure shows how much deep thought goes into diaries on this site. How embarrassing is that?


"The true measure of a man is how he treats someone who can do him absolutely no good." Samuel Johnson
by MS01 Indie on Tue Jul 29, 2008 at 04:00:50 PM EST

It's not insulting (none / 0)


   Hillary doesn't bring anything to the election that Barack needs.

  Not to mention that if he picks her, he looks like he bowed to pressure and can't make his own decisions.

  I'd support the ticket with a Hillary pick. But I think it would be a colossal mistake to give it to her.


by southernman on Tue Jul 29, 2008 at 04:03:18 PM EST

Re: It's not insulting (none / 0)

She only brings 18 million voters, their campaign contributions, and a bunch of well organized volunteers. You know, just all of the things that political campaigns spend all of their energy trying to obtain.


by LakersFan on Tue Jul 29, 2008 at 06:53:12 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Whoever pisses off the PUMA's most ... (1.50 / 2)

...is my choice.  I don't think a VP is going to change too much of anything this year.  Although, Kaine might help in VA, then again he might hurt in VA.  

As long as the PUMA's are pissed off I will be happy.  


Consider that everything which happens, happens justly, and if thou observest carefully, thou wilt find it to be so. -Marcus Aurelius
by Blue Neponset on Tue Jul 29, 2008 at 04:05:23 PM EST

Re: Whoever pisses off the PUMA's most ... (none / 0)

Well, then, I just have to share then -- http://www.rumproast.com/index.php/site/ comments/barack_obama_lures_people_to_hi s_berlin_speech_with_free_beer_and_food_ not/


We care about politics because we know politics matters for people's lives and opportunities.
by politicsmatters on Tue Jul 29, 2008 at 05:09:00 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: (2.00 / 2)

As a fellow New Yorker I have to say:

Weather's pretty nice in NYC right now. Nice breeze going on so it's keeping the temperature sweet.


by JBGolden on Tue Jul 29, 2008 at 04:08:36 PM EST

Bleagh (none / 0)

Sure, no problem.


by mousethief on Tue Jul 29, 2008 at 04:20:38 PM EST

Recced? (2.00 / 1)

This comment makes the rec list? The system is clearly broken.


Know Your Rights!
by BobzCat on Tue Jul 29, 2008 at 04:23:02 PM EST

Re: Recced? (none / 0)

SOmeone in Admin who knows this site only survives on Flame Wars and Trolls has a magic "Wreck List" button.

Plain and simple


by DemsLandslide2008 on Tue Jul 29, 2008 at 04:49:20 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Obama will never pick a woman (1.50 / 2)

The very fact that he is considering somebody who
has a ``faith''-based opposition to abortion shows that he does not really care about women's rights.  
by ann0nymous on Tue Jul 29, 2008 at 05:06:18 PM EST

Re: Obama will never pick a woman (2.00 / 1)

Kaine doesn't think abortion should be illegal. He's against abortion as a matter of his own moral views, not in terms of imposing his views on others.


We care about politics because we know politics matters for people's lives and opportunities.
by politicsmatters on Tue Jul 29, 2008 at 05:07:46 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Obama will never pick a woman (none / 0)

This still has the potential to be problematic if the Catholic church gets involved and threatens excommunication as it did for Kerry. Not a major thing, but it might unnecessarily stir up the abortion issue in a way that we don't want. Also, there are hard core pro choicers who won't be happy with this at all.


by Mayor McCheese on Tue Jul 29, 2008 at 05:48:01 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Obama's VP has to be Hillary or a Hillary supp (none / 0)

Just talked to a high ranking member of the LA teachers' union who thinks sexism defeated Hillary Clinton.  So, if Barack Obama already has to fight racism, is it wise for him to pick a woman as his running mate and fight that battle as well?

Much as I would love to see a woman stand next to him on inauguration day, I wonder if the low info American public would elect a ticket without a white man on it.


by Susan from 29 on Tue Jul 29, 2008 at 05:22:10 PM EST

Re: Obama's VP has to be Hillary or a Hillary supp (none / 0)

I think Hillary would be a great pick pragmaticaly.

I dont think she wants it, although for political office, nothing is more sweet than VP.
Why do you think Gore looks so good for his age (joking joking)

but seriously, I think that the media along with her self absorbed self claimed supporters have destroyed her national image.

If she gets the VP pick, according to your friend, sexism will ruin the GE.

What does your friend think the Media and America, and as a Deadender would say, the DNC (who conspired to take her down) would change at all.

Man tell your friend that some jackass on the internet asked him to please stop tarnishing Hillary's reputation as a victim, when she fought one of the most brutal campaigns I have seen.  and I say that as a compliment.


by DemsLandslide2008 on Tue Jul 29, 2008 at 05:29:12 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Oh well, so much for unity (none / 0)

I don't see why this made the REC list.  I guess people feel like venting today.


"They are ever so much nicer at Tiffany's!"
by epiphany on Tue Jul 29, 2008 at 05:24:53 PM EST

Re: Oh well, so much for unity (none / 0)

Someone (not saying who) pushed the magic wreck list button.

Hey this site needs money, traffic = money.


by DemsLandslide2008 on Tue Jul 29, 2008 at 05:29:47 PM EST
[ Parent ]

I disagree... (none / 0)

I disagree with the premise of this post. The primary was a choice between one way of positioning the party and another. No matter how close it was, one side won. Trying to cram them both together again for the general is not a recipe for success, For better or for worse, Obama won the primary because enough voters and super delegates decided that his message was the one that should represent the Democratic party in the fall. Obligating him to pick Hillary or a Hillary surrogate as VP is straightjacketing him and weakening his brand, which is (and should be) about making a break from the past.


by wasder on Tue Jul 29, 2008 at 05:30:46 PM EST

Re: Obama's VP has to be MEEEEEEEEEEEEEE (1.00 / 1)

If Obama doesn't choose me to be his veep, it will reopen the all the wounds that exist only in my head since I'm the most important voter.

Love,
The Diarist.

P.S. MEE MEEEE MEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE

P.P.S. MEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE


Fight the Smears!
by Lettuce on Tue Jul 29, 2008 at 05:57:07 PM EST

Honestly, you aren't even trying. (2.00 / 3)

They see me trolling.
Down-rating,
cajoling
and tryin ta catch me writing PUMA.
M. It's like W, but flipflopped.
by warmwaterpenguin on Tue Jul 29, 2008 at 06:04:27 PM EST

Re: Honestly, you aren't even trying. (2.00 / 1)

Hahaha, alright, that made me laugh. Props on that.


by JBGolden on Tue Jul 29, 2008 at 06:25:12 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Honestly, you aren't even trying. (none / 0)

This is my favorite comment of the day.
Props.
lol
by Kysen on Tue Jul 29, 2008 at 06:41:27 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Honestly, you aren't even trying. (2.00 / 1)

Best comment in a while.


And so, may evil beware and may good dress warmly and eat lots of fresh vegetables.
by thatpurplestuff on Tue Jul 29, 2008 at 06:45:06 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Obama's VP has to be Hillary or a Hillary supp (none / 0)

I could live with Evan Bayh.

In fact, I'd take him over Kaine.

Just sayin'


by Bush Bites on Tue Jul 29, 2008 at 06:26:09 PM EST

It's gotten hard to tell snark... (2.00 / 0)

from insanity.


by Glaurung on Tue Jul 29, 2008 at 06:30:07 PM EST


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