Care about the Supreme Court? No Kaine VP.

As the rumors about Governor Tim Kaine as Obama's VP heat up, I thought I would take a moment to point out the Governor's pro-life stances.  Do we really want a VP who is out of step with the party on possibly our most defining issue?  



Display:


Um he is personally pro-life and legislatively (2.00 / 4)

pro choice.  I know a lot of people who are that way.  Besides VP's generally flip to match the POTUS...

But thank you for your excellent, well researched and exhaustive diary, no go be a good McBlogger and redeem this for points.  Or if ye be of Murphy's ilk go crow about your success on the PUMA blogs...


The guy advising John McCain on the economy thinks you are a whiner.
by Sanguine Giant on Tue Jul 29, 2008 at 10:36:17 AM EST

Namely (2.00 / 1)

Jimmy Carter being one example.


The American people; they were for the war before they were against it.
by nrafter530 on Tue Jul 29, 2008 at 10:37:32 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Indeed (2.00 / 1)

or possibly Bill Clinton...


The guy advising John McCain on the economy thinks you are a whiner.
by Sanguine Giant on Tue Jul 29, 2008 at 10:39:01 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Or Mario Cuomo (none / 0)


by JJE on Tue Jul 29, 2008 at 10:59:31 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Or Mario Cuomo (none / 0)

Or John Kerry.


I have that readiness.
by Jess81 on Tue Jul 29, 2008 at 11:31:37 AM EST
[ Parent ]

This diary is not. It's a comment. n/t (none / 0)


by bobswern on Tue Jul 29, 2008 at 11:38:25 AM EST
[ Parent ]

if Obama wants to be more "risky" (none / 0)

then yea go ahead pick Tim Kaine. The word risky is a double sword in that it not only hits Obama's experience, but hits him on color. If he has another inexperienced person on his ticket, he still will be called risky, and meaning his color will still be hit. He needs a veep with experience. He needs Hillary Clinton. She will bring back the Dems on the fence, and the ones who voted for her in the primary because they were uncomfortable with Obama.


by Lakrosse on Tue Jul 29, 2008 at 10:40:52 AM EST

Ok for the 100th time (2.00 / 1)

He doesn't NEED Hillary Clinton because most of her voters are on board and there aren't many on the fence, no matter what you'd like to believe.

AND if he wants experience, he can get it elsewhere, what's wrong with Bill Richardson? He has a lot of experience. A former Congressman, Cabinet member and two term Governor of New Mexico.


The American people; they were for the war before they were against it.
by nrafter530 on Tue Jul 29, 2008 at 10:42:55 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Ok for the 100th time (none / 0)

I've heard enough rumors about Richardson and women (mostly harassment stuff) that I have to believe that there's a little smoke there - not to mention that such a choice would really piss off the remaining Clinton dead-enders die-hards.  I'm not on board the Clinton-as-VP bandwagon by any means, but I don't think Richardson would be a good choice.


Join the Matthew 25 Network and help Democrats win the next generation of evangelicals.
by mistersite on Tue Jul 29, 2008 at 10:55:38 AM EST
[ Parent ]

I thought I read somewhere that (none / 0)

the two (Obama and Richardson) didn't have that great of a personal chemistry.


"No government has the right to tell its citizens whom to love. The only queer people are those who don't love anybody." - Rita Mae Brown
by auboy2006 on Tue Jul 29, 2008 at 10:59:35 AM EST
[ Parent ]

I don't either (none / 0)

I think he was better fit for Kerry...but I don't think Obama and Clinton are good on a ticket either except to appease the squabbling party members.


The American people; they were for the war before they were against it.
by nrafter530 on Tue Jul 29, 2008 at 11:07:30 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Ok for the 100th time (none / 0)

Indeed.  Someone needs to start a Google-bomb to make the first hit for "he needs Hillary Clinton" be bullshit.com or something.


by username on Tue Jul 29, 2008 at 11:01:25 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Ok for the 100th time (none / 0)

Richardson has a great resume but he's one of those people who looks better on paper than he performs. He ran a pretty horrible campaign and picking him could be seen as a slight to Clinton supporters.


by Mayor McCheese on Tue Jul 29, 2008 at 12:12:05 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Ok for the 100th time (none / 0)

Really?  This is from 2 weeks ago...

http://www.cnn.com/2008/POLITICS/07/04/c linton.poll/index.html

According to a CNN/Opinion Research Corp. poll released Friday, the number of Clinton supporters who plan to defect to Republican Sen. John McCain's camp is down from one month ago, but -- in what could be an ominous sign for Obama as he seeks to unify the party -- the number of them who say they plan to vote for Obama is also down, and a growing number say they may not vote at all.

In another sign the wounds of the heated primary race have yet to heal, 43 percent of registered Democrats polled still say they would prefer Clinton to be the party's presidential nominee.  That number is significantly higher than it was in early June, when 35 percent of Democrats polled said they preferred Clinton to lead the party's presidential ticket.

So, your assertions that most of the Clinton supporters are on board are just not played out by the numbers.  Granted there are a large number that are.  A large number that are holding their nose and will vote for Obama, but to unilaterally claim that a majority of Clinton supporters are on board is just not right, and is ignoring glaring klieg light problems if Obama choses not to pick Hillary as his VP.

A growing number of Clinton supporters polled say they may stay home in November instead of casting their ballot for Obama, an indication the party has yet to coalesce around the Illinois senator four weeks after the most prolonged and at times divisive primary race in modern American history came to a close.

A close election nationally right now will close even tighter should he chose to not pick her.  It's his choice and his shot, so he has to do what he needs to do.  What I find funny though is that he'll compromise on FISA and Gun control, but not his VP choice?  No matter what he decides he has to get it right this time.  If he fails, there will be no second chance for Obama.  He has to know that, and is probably why he's trying to play the cards close to his chest.

If you think the PUMA stuff is bad now, wait until he doesn't chose her.  Axelrod won't be able to control the spin fast enough as it hits the fan.  Obama should chose whomever he wants, he just has to do it knowing this is his one and only shot at it, and that if he does chose someone else, he's turning an almost 60-40 win for sure into a 50-50 toss-up.

Here's me getting ready to pack my bags to the convention...it's gonna be an exciting time.


He that lives upon hope, will die fasting. -Ben Franklin
by TxDem08 on Tue Jul 29, 2008 at 12:46:01 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Blackmailing the candidate (none / 0)

into getting your candidate on the ticket doesn't work...sorry. They'll either come around or they won't. If they're making that decision based solely on whether or not Hillary is on the ticket, then there's a serious problem with how and why people vote in this country.


The American people; they were for the war before they were against it.
by nrafter530 on Tue Jul 29, 2008 at 12:54:39 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Blackmailing the candidate (none / 0)

Blaming the voters doesn't win elections either, and I doubt Obama would know or care if some poster on a blog was "blackmailing" him with their vote.

But what is wrong with debating whether Obama's VP choice would alienate Clinton voters? Obama may think they will come around in the end, but he doesn't appear to be stupid enough to think he doesn't need their votes.


by souvarine on Tue Jul 29, 2008 at 01:18:09 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Blackmailing the candidate (none / 0)

No one but you is jumping to the conclusion that people are attempting to blackmail anyone.  You should read the responses before regurgitating a canned response.

If people are making a decision based solely on the side of the ticket, then there is something also seriously wrong with how and why people vote in this country.

With your attitude I would start preparing Obama and his campaign for those that won't.


He that lives upon hope, will die fasting. -Ben Franklin
by TxDem08 on Tue Jul 29, 2008 at 01:57:41 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Experince doesn't matter in terms of the election (2.00 / 1)

McCain isn't emphasizing it and it wasn't a winning issue for Sen Clinton in the primary...


The guy advising John McCain on the economy thinks you are a whiner.
by Sanguine Giant on Tue Jul 29, 2008 at 10:44:45 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Experince doesn't matter in terms of the elect (none / 0)

" McCain isn't emphasizing it "

 - Maybe we both have been watching two different campaigns but I could have sworn that was the only thing he emphasizes in all of his town halls and tv appearances .

He doesn't understand... , he doesn't understand .... , Senator Obama doesn't understand ....... , he needs to understand..... !!!!!

" Experince doesn't matter in terms of the election "

 - Matters in every election . Infact it is central to the Mccain's camp attempts to paint him as risky .


Educated in a small town Taught to fear Jesus in a small town Used to daydream in that small town Another born romantic that's me.
by lori on Tue Jul 29, 2008 at 10:51:02 AM EST
[ Parent ]

And if it wasn't experience (none / 0)

it would be something else.


The American people; they were for the war before they were against it.
by nrafter530 on Tue Jul 29, 2008 at 10:52:52 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Experince doesn't matter in terms of the elect (none / 0)

I'm sure experience matters in every election, but it's been a long time since the most experienced candidate won.

Bush II beat Kerry (Kerry has been in Washington forever)
Bush II beat Gore
Clinton beat Dole
Clinton beat Bush
Bush I beat Dukakis (in this case, experience won)
Reagan beat Mondale (Mondale was certainly more experienced at the national level and had even been vice-pres)
Reagan beat Carter
Carter beat Ford

There are so many variable related to voting and public support of a candidate, so I don't suggest that we draw any strong concusions from this. But, it is good to remind ourselves that the more experienced candidate has only been successful in one presidential election in the past 30 years (when Bush I beat Dukakis).


by DPW on Tue Jul 29, 2008 at 11:15:03 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Experince doesn't matter in terms of the elect (2.00 / 1)

* Bush II was a sittin president when he beat Kerry , I don't know how much more experience you can get . Infact cowboy Bush won precisely because the public thought Kerry was too weak or inexperienced to deal with terrorism in my view.

*  I tend to believe Gore won the election .

Its hard to believe experience won't play a factor  in this race specifically .


Educated in a small town Taught to fear Jesus in a small town Used to daydream in that small town Another born romantic that's me.
by lori on Tue Jul 29, 2008 at 11:25:03 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Experince doesn't matter in terms of the elect (2.00 / 1)

Both good points.


I have that readiness.
by Jess81 on Tue Jul 29, 2008 at 11:33:06 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Experince played a role in the primary (none / 0)

and was shot down.

I fully believe the same thing to happen in the general.


"No government has the right to tell its citizens whom to love. The only queer people are those who don't love anybody." - Rita Mae Brown
by auboy2006 on Tue Jul 29, 2008 at 11:35:18 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Experince doesn't matter in terms of the elect (none / 0)

I agree about Gore. It was at least "a tie," if not a Gore victory. In any case, Bush was less experienced on foreign policy issues than Obama, in my opinion, and had no national experience at all.

I still think Kerry was more experienced than Bush, generally speaking, although Bush certainly couldn't be called inexperienced after holding the office for 4 years.

But, all this just highlights the flexibility in concepts like "experience." There are many kinds of valuable non-political experience that often gets overlooked. I certainly think Romney's presidency of the Winter Olympics is important experience. I also think being a trial lawyer will teach you more about litigation reform than senate experience. And, I think teaching Constitutional Law will develop a more sophisticated view of the law and judges. I think military experience teaches you something that congressional work can not. And, I think being a community organizer in a poor urban area teaches you lessons about poverty, inequality, and systematic disadvantages that can't be learned in any social science class or senate hearing. But, unfortunately, our public discourse seems to only emphasize elected office (with a disproportionate focus on Washington experience).


by DPW on Tue Jul 29, 2008 at 12:11:29 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Experince doesn't matter in terms of the elect (none / 0)

Point well taken, but in several of thsoe cases, we are talking about sitting presidents. (Reagan-Mondale, Clinton-Dole, Bush-Kerry). It's pretty hard to argue that someone is more expereienced at being president than a sitting president.


by Mayor McCheese on Tue Jul 29, 2008 at 12:15:51 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Experince doesn't matter in terms of the elect (none / 0)

Yep, agree w/ Lori.

Bush II was a sitting president.  so was Clinton.  So was Reagan v. Mondale.  And even though Bush I wasn't a sitting President he was the VP for 8 years, so essentially the incumbant in the position.

I don't think w/ that many holes the bucket will hold any more water.


He that lives upon hope, will die fasting. -Ben Franklin
by TxDem08 on Tue Jul 29, 2008 at 02:01:58 PM EST
[ Parent ]

If experience is what you actually care about (none / 0)

then you should be pushing Nunn or Biden, who both have much more experience than Clinton.


by JJE on Tue Jul 29, 2008 at 10:56:13 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Care about the (2.00 / 2)

Tim Kaine is against making abortion illegal and he has said so on the record.  He is entitled to his own morality.  Look at what he has done as governor.  If something gives you pause, that's fine.  However, his personal views are not being made into law, nor is he enforcing the laws such that abortions are no longer a viable choice.


by Reaper0Bot0 on Tue Jul 29, 2008 at 10:45:16 AM EST

Re: Care about the (none / 0)

Man, just living in a country where someone's personal morality isn't their political agenda...gives me shivers to think of it!  


No way. No how. No McCain.
by freedom78 on Tue Jul 29, 2008 at 11:09:58 AM EST
[ Parent ]

It's called (none / 0)

Separation of Church and State. I'm living in Italy now. If people didn't separate personal morality and political agenda, this country would be governed solely by the Pope.


The American people; they were for the war before they were against it.
by nrafter530 on Tue Jul 29, 2008 at 11:42:40 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Care about the Supreme Court? No Kaine VP. (2.00 / 7)

I would never burn the American flag, but then I would never vote to outlaw flag burning, either.  See how that works?


by rfahey22 on Tue Jul 29, 2008 at 10:46:03 AM EST

Re: Care about the (2.00 / 2)

Bingo

</applause>


by Reaper0Bot0 on Tue Jul 29, 2008 at 10:47:17 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Umm... so you know the VP (2.00 / 1)

doesn't appoint SC Justices, right?


"No government has the right to tell its citizens whom to love. The only queer people are those who don't love anybody." - Rita Mae Brown
by auboy2006 on Tue Jul 29, 2008 at 10:50:12 AM EST

Re: Umm... so you know the VP (2.00 / 1)

Where's that dude who posts the entire constitution when you need him?


by username on Tue Jul 29, 2008 at 11:03:14 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Care about the Supreme Court? No Kaine VP. (1.80 / 5)

That train has already left the station with the selection of Obama as the nominee. Obama's views on choice are not that far from Kaine's, and the sorts of people Obama is likely to nominate for the supreme court, people like Cass Sunstein, argue that Roe v. Wade was a bad decision. Obama judges probably wouldn't allow the banning of abortion, but they would look to limit the scope of the right to choose.


by souvarine on Tue Jul 29, 2008 at 11:07:01 AM EST

Nice speculation (none / 0)

but not true.


The American people; they were for the war before they were against it.
by nrafter530 on Tue Jul 29, 2008 at 11:09:31 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Nice speculation (none / 0)

Which part is false? And based on what evidence?


by souvarine on Tue Jul 29, 2008 at 11:11:47 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Nice speculation (none / 0)

I can't speak for the other poster, but I think it's the part about Cass Sunstein being a likely SCOTUS pick.  Please present an authoritative source providing some kind of evidence that Sunstein would be a SCOTUS nominee.


Join the Matthew 25 Network and help Democrats win the next generation of evangelicals.
by mistersite on Tue Jul 29, 2008 at 11:26:52 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Nice speculation (none / 0)

I don't know what individual Obama would choose, I haven't heard him mention anyone by name. But if you look at the Supreme Court cases Obama has chosen to comment on, and at what he has said, and if you read through Obama's policy positions, you see a lot of Sunstein's thought. Sunstein is a friend and informal advisor to Obama, it is not a stretch to suggest the Obama would look for judges like him.


by souvarine on Tue Jul 29, 2008 at 11:42:33 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Actually (none / 0)

Ruth Bader Ginsburg is among those who think that Roe v. Wade was poorly reasoned.

WATCH OUT SOUVARINE!!  WE'VE GOT A STEALTH WINGNUT ON THE COURT RIGHT NOW!!


by JJE on Tue Jul 29, 2008 at 11:15:31 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Actually (2.00 / 1)

Ginsburg, on the court, has always argued for an expansive interpretation of Roe v Wade. While Sunstein likes her argument that women's rights are better grounded in equal protection rather than in some privacy penumbra, he clearly sees more room for restricting choice than Ginsburg does.

Neither Ginsburg nor Sunstein are wingnuts, but Sunstein interprets the constitution in a way that would result in decisions that I would disagree with. Many people of good faith think choice should be restricted, that I disagree with them does not make them wingnuts.


by souvarine on Tue Jul 29, 2008 at 11:29:43 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Actually (none / 0)

Souvarine, I have good friends that run the OYEZ project, and many who are familar with the U of Chicago law profs, many of whom as you know are considered conservative.

What they generally say is, Sunstiens argument against Roe is essentially theoritical AND political, and there is no concensus that he would vote to overturn Roe, actually the opposite is what they mostly believe.

If you have read his arguments, he is essentially stating the political argument the Roe was the tie that bound, it WAS the unifying issue that allowed the right wing to coallecese around a key argument, and, allowed those who really could give a crap about restricting choice (the Dick Cheney NeoCon Business Class Repubs) to create fanatic footsoldiers on the RR.

What Sunstien is saying, again, as a POLITICAL ARGUMENT IS, a decision less polarizing then Roe WOULD have perhaps not given the weapon to the right to wield for the last 40 years.

It's a bit different then extropolating to what a Cass Sunstien as a USSC associate would do in 2010 if Roe came before the court.

Many feel he would voice objections, but NOT overturn Roe based on Stare decisis.

Besides, as he argues and as I agree, Abortion is defacto banned in many red states already?

We have been losing the war IN SPITE of Roe standing for decades.


My mom believed in Jesus, the Pope and FDR..... Just not necessarily in that order.
by WashStateBlue on Tue Jul 29, 2008 at 11:40:08 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Actually (2.00 / 1)

What you fail to realize though is, w/out Roe v. Wade being a POLITICAL ARGUMENT, it would have been overturned quickly and quietly w/out much fanfare or effort.

I have a serious problem w/ someone who even acknowledges that the right to an Abortion is a defacto ban already regardless of where it occurs.  If that is true, then the argument of his position on Stare Decisis would then be moot.  If it's defacto banned, it can then be legally banned.

We have not been losing the WAR of words in spite of Roe.  There has just been an increase in the vitriol and spin.


He that lives upon hope, will die fasting. -Ben Franklin
by TxDem08 on Tue Jul 29, 2008 at 02:08:38 PM EST
[ Parent ]

"He clearly sees more room" (none / 0)

You need more than this interview to support this proposition.


by JJE on Tue Jul 29, 2008 at 11:51:16 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Care about the Supreme Court? No Kaine VP. (none / 0)

Wrong about Cass, and as someone has stated, he is essentially in agreement with Ginsburg and Souter, who voice the same legal arguement against the ACTUAL Roe decision.

He would HEAVILY weight Stare decisis in any decision he would make overturning Roe, and, as we have seen, the Federalist Society crew like Alito and Roberts and WHOMEVER is on McCain's short list for the court would state how much they agree with Stare decisis, then as soon as they got on the court, find some reason to overturn anything that didn't fit their Federalist Society mantra.


My mom believed in Jesus, the Pope and FDR..... Just not necessarily in that order.
by WashStateBlue on Tue Jul 29, 2008 at 11:26:26 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Care about the Supreme Court? No Kaine VP. (none / 0)

Sunstein would not vote to overturn Roe v. Wade, he has been explicit on that point. But the current battle over choice does not involve overturning Roe v. Wade, the pro-life strategy is to undermine it. See Gonzales v. Carhart.


by souvarine on Tue Jul 29, 2008 at 11:33:46 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Care about the Supreme Court? No Kaine VP. (none / 0)

Agreed about Cass, as I said above.

BTW, I think we probably disagree on Cass.

I think he would make a great USSC judge, by far the intellectual superior to Alito and Roberts, and I think WOULD be able to help the court move to the middle.

Unfortunately, we are sorely lacking in Thurgood Marshalls these days, and I am not sure one could get appointed anyway, and I think some of the objections would come from Democrats.


My mom believed in Jesus, the Pope and FDR..... Just not necessarily in that order.
by WashStateBlue on Tue Jul 29, 2008 at 11:44:11 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Care about the Supreme Court? No Kaine VP. (2.00 / 1)

Sunstein's issue with Roe has to do with his "minimalist" judicial philosophy more than anything.

How do you think the Roe v. Wade decision should've proceeded?

I think the Court should've said, in the Texas and Georgia cases [pertaining to Roe v. Wade], that these laws are so draconian in their reach that they're unconstitutional. The Texas law didn't allow abortion in cases of rape. So the court could've said very narrowly that we're not going to say anything general about what the Constitution says with respect to abortion -- but women who have been raped have a right to have an abortion. The Georgia law had procedural hurdles for women seeking abortions that seemed to intrude on women's interests and went well beyond what was necessary to make sure that the decision was reasonable and well-considered. The court could've said simply that the Texas law didn't have an exception in cases of rape, and the Georgia law went far beyond what is reasonable and necessary to protect fetal life. And that way there would've been a continuing dialogue between the states and the Supreme Court on the abortion issue.

http://www.law.uchicago.edu/news/sunstei n/supreme-court-conservatives-liberals.h tml

And, his judicial philosophy would lead him to uphold Roe and its progeny now, even if he didn't like the Court's original opinion ("I am not saying that Roe v. Wade should be overruled. I don't think it should." see above link). Sunstein is pretty clearly pro-choice, politically speaking, but he has reservations about reading every "good" political position into the constitution.

And more generally, because judicial philosophy depends so heavily on unique intellectual questions that don't arise in ordinary political/moral philosophy, it's often a mistake to place so much emphasis on outcomes when we talk about good judges v. bad judges. The important questions related to originalism v. non-originalism, text v. intent, and more practical considerations like the need for regularity/predictability in the law (think stare decisis) and judicial restraint. Of course, nonoriginalist jurists (like myself) often argue that interpretation of the law necessarily involves resolving questions of political morality, but because the larger endeavor of constitutional analysis (from a judicial standpoint) involves so much more, jurists will frequently hate an opinion while supporting the conclusion.

Moreover, you can hate an opinion and still like the conclusion. When Justice Blackmun died a few years back, one of his clerks wrote something to that effect about Blackmun's opinion in Roe (Basically, his point was that there are good arguments for constitutional constraints on abortion regulation, but Blackmun's opinion didn't do a very good job presenting them). I actually agree that Roe is a poorly argued opinion, even though I would probably reach a similar conclusion if I were deciding the case.


by DPW on Tue Jul 29, 2008 at 11:57:14 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Care about the Supreme Court? No Kaine VP. (2.00 / 1)

Uprated for an abusive rating.

I disagree with Souvarine here, but this is NOT a troll post.


My mom believed in Jesus, the Pope and FDR..... Just not necessarily in that order.
by WashStateBlue on Tue Jul 29, 2008 at 12:01:17 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Care about the Supreme Court? No Kaine VP. (none / 0)

I mean that Souvarine post that begins:

"That train has already left the station"

Clearly NOT a troll post, and didn't deserve a down rate.


My mom believed in Jesus, the Pope and FDR..... Just not necessarily in that order.
by WashStateBlue on Tue Jul 29, 2008 at 12:03:42 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Politics 101 for the newbies like Oregon Dem? (2.00 / 1)

Let me do a little explaining here.

There are RED states, There are BLUE states, there are PURPLE states.  

Democrats in PURPLE and RED states often adopt a stance that says:

"I am personally Pro-Life, but I am against legal restrictions on abortion, I feel the decision should be made by the parties involved, in conjuntion with their doctor and their belief system."

This is essentially a Libertarian position, but it does two things.

It essentially defuses 90% of the abortion attack mantra, used time and time again to defeat Democrats in states like Virginia and Kansas.

It allows us to ACTUALLY HAVE Democrats elected in Red and Purple states.

So, having Kaine on the ticket (not my first or second choice, BTW, I would prefer Wes Clark or Senator Clinton...I know that shocks a lot of folks from Big Kitty-Ville, not all Obama supporters get up in the morning hating the Clintons) would NOT mean he would object to USSC justices who support the right to choice.

In fact, it would be exactly in line with his personal philosophy.


My mom believed in Jesus, the Pope and FDR..... Just not necessarily in that order.
by WashStateBlue on Tue Jul 29, 2008 at 11:21:21 AM EST

Re: Care about the Supreme Court? No Kaine VP. (none / 0)

He is anti death penalty, that would be my most defining vote on the court. That, and environmental vots, where he is excellent as well.


by mady on Tue Jul 29, 2008 at 11:26:11 AM EST

It doesn't matter really (none / 0)

because he's not going to be on the court or picking the Supreme Court nominees.


"No government has the right to tell its citizens whom to love. The only queer people are those who don't love anybody." - Rita Mae Brown
by auboy2006 on Tue Jul 29, 2008 at 11:34:27 AM EST
[ Parent ]

What is interesting about this diary.... (none / 0)

Been commenting for a while on this thread, and I just re-read this part of the diary:

"Do we really want a VP who is out of step with the party on possibly our most defining issue?"

Well, I wonder what people think of that statement, and in this context:

Does is seem like EITHER party is fighting this election on what the poster thinks is "possibly our most defining issue?"

I think not, and I think it's because there is NO clear winner if either party throws this issue down and wants to define this election around Choice.

Obama is trying to flip Red and Purple states, McCain is trying to appeal to cross-overs and independents.

In this case, neither side wants to go toe to toe on Abortion, though, I HOPE it's brought up in debates, because I think Obama's position is less risky then McCain, who literally is trying to have it both ways...

He's having Carly Fiorina run around and pretend that McCain is some Gloria Steinhiem fan..

And, he has his Evangelical preachers keeping the flock in line by touting McCains letter perfect voting record and NEVER CONTRADICTED statement that he favors overturning Roe.

It's McCain that needs the veil ripped away, just for now, Abortion rights is not a battle field Obama, who is focused on trying to win Purple wants to focus on.  


My mom believed in Jesus, the Pope and FDR..... Just not necessarily in that order.
by WashStateBlue on Tue Jul 29, 2008 at 11:58:50 AM EST

Who here was for Kerry in '04? (none / 0)

...because his stance on abortion is very similar to Kaine's.

PS. Considering the 'Southern Strategy,' wouldn't it be a good idea to have a Southerner on the ticket?


"Action comes easy; it's the moments just before that are hard." ~Defiance, Ohio~ http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=65I0HNvTD H4
by ScienceTeacher118 on Tue Jul 29, 2008 at 12:08:15 PM EST

Supreme Court (none / 0)

issues go beyond abortion.   And it's not at all clear that Kaine would promote hard right anti choice justices to the bench.

Frankly, if SCOTUS was the only deciding issue, then we really ought to have nominated Clinton as there is a proven history there of nominating great justices to the bench.  But it's not the only deciding issue.


by activatedbybush on Tue Jul 29, 2008 at 12:10:24 PM EST

Re: Care about the Supreme Court? No Kaine VP. (none / 0)

I think this is a ridiculous premise for a diary. Tim Kaine is a great pick for Obama. The fact that he has personal/religious qualms with abortion but that he is able to keep those private and not within the legislative realm says a lot about his approach to politics and his understanding of the separation between church and state. I think he is a uniquely appealing candidate who can speak to voters who care are motivated by values-based issues but who still presents the best of what Democratic Party leadership could be.


by wasder on Tue Jul 29, 2008 at 12:16:12 PM EST

Re: Care about the Supreme Court? No Kaine VP. (none / 0)

Kaine??? yawn  zzzzz   Can't believe he'd pick that bore over Hillary Clinton.


by karajan72 on Tue Jul 29, 2008 at 12:49:49 PM EST


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