Clinton Asks To Keep Donor Money for 2012

Sen. Clinton has asked permission to keep donor money.

http://www.observer.com/2008/politics/hi llary-clinton-asks-if-she-can-keep-donor -money-2012

Hillary Clinton's campaign is sending out letters to donors asking permission to roll a $2,300 contribution to Clinton's 2008 general election coffers to her 2012 senate election fund instead of offering a refund.

From the article:
"The letter, read to me by one recipient, includes a photocopy of a handwritten note from Clinton that says, "Dear friend, your commitment has meant so much to me over the course of my presidential campaign. You were there for me when I needed you the most and I'll never forget it. I hope you'll help me continue to fight for the issues and causes we believe in by filling out the enclosed form in support of Friends of Hillary."


The form says, "I hereby verify that my 2008 general election contribution may be designated to the 2012 Senate election. I designate the entire amount to the 2012 primary election. However if I have already contributed to the 2012 primary, I designate any amount in excess of $2,300 to the 2012 general election."

Display:


Re: Clinton Asks To Keep Donor Money for 2012 (2.00 / 1)

Not unusual, nor unexpected. She could also so use it to pay down her debt, what ever is left of it.


Faced with the choice between changing one's mind and proving that there is no need to do so, almost everyone gets busy on the proof.
by jsfox on Tue Jul 15, 2008 at 10:16:16 AM EST

Re: Clinton Asks To Keep Donor Money for 2012 (none / 0)

Just reporting what I read, that's all!


by Mae Scott on Tue Jul 15, 2008 at 10:19:39 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Clinton Asks To Keep Donor Money for 2012 (2.00 / 2)

If I sounded accusatory, my apologies, not my intent. Just my take on what you were reporting :)


Faced with the choice between changing one's mind and proving that there is no need to do so, almost everyone gets busy on the proof.
by jsfox on Tue Jul 15, 2008 at 10:21:20 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Actually I don't think she can (2.00 / 1)

I was curious about this a couple months back.  Her general election funds can't be used to pay her primary bills, they have to be given back or re-secured for upcoming elections.  

If she could've used her general election funds for paying back her primary debt, we wouldn't have been having these heated negotiations between the Obama and Clinton fundraising camps recently.


In this avalanche, the pebbles get to vote.

That One/Another Fella '08

by Dracomicron on Tue Jul 15, 2008 at 10:20:53 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Actually I don't think she can (none / 0)

Ooops you are right and I was wrong when I said she could use it to pay down her debt. They only way she could do this if she refunded and donors contributed again to pay down debt.


Faced with the choice between changing one's mind and proving that there is no need to do so, almost everyone gets busy on the proof.
by jsfox on Tue Jul 15, 2008 at 10:22:57 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Clinton Asks To Keep Donor Money for 2012 (none / 0)

At this point, given the divisions in the democratic party, I do not believe that any cognizant individual would believe this would be a fun-loving expression that would be shared in wide-circles of the democratic party.

Do you think before you blog? I think so, for to say otherwise would be to denigrate your intelligence. Your behavior is down-right trollish!


by Check077 on Tue Jul 15, 2008 at 03:13:08 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Clinton Asks To Keep Donor Money for 2012 (none / 0)

WTF?  What was trollish about that comment?  The question gets reversed to you... DO YOU THINK Before you blog, because your comment seems to suggest you do not!


http://www.imvotingrepublican.com/ McCain Sucks!
by yitbos96bb on Tue Jul 15, 2008 at 10:22:46 PM EST
[ Parent ]

As long as it's not for the 2012 presidential (none / 0)

...because that would be kinda classless.


In this avalanche, the pebbles get to vote.

That One/Another Fella '08

by Dracomicron on Tue Jul 15, 2008 at 10:21:38 AM EST

Re: As long as it's not for the 2012 presidential (none / 0)

Whatever Dracula-micron? What would be classless is your attempt to look beyond winning in 2008? So what if she's possibly thinking about planning for 2012 (in the senate or general election)? Hell, last time I checked Obama had to win an election to become president--it's not automatic. Boy, you people really need to let up from the blogging and take some deep breathing exercises.


by Check077 on Tue Jul 15, 2008 at 10:31:29 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Come again? (none / 0)

Notice I had no problem with her keeping the money for her Senate race (though why she needs that much for a New York Senate seat is beyond me); her stated interest is making Obama president (which would mean that we'd logically want to keep him in until 2016) and it would be counter-message to say that while already planning for her 2012 presidential run.  

She seems to understand this, from what I gathered in this diary.  Why don't you?


In this avalanche, the pebbles get to vote.

That One/Another Fella '08

by Dracomicron on Tue Jul 15, 2008 at 10:38:28 AM EST
[ Parent ]

If you really believe her stated intent (2.00 / 2)

and had no problem with her keeping the money for her Senate race, then why did you feel a need to make the statement about a 2012 Presidential campaign classlessness?

That's what really irks the pro-Clinton people here who have accepted that Obama is the nominee - the unnecessary, needling little remarks from Obama supporters.  Remarks which they insist are harmless and meaningless, but which still expose an underlying distrust of Clinton.

On occasion, I admire and agree with your thoughts, but you always manage to undermine that with things like this.


by aggieric on Tue Jul 15, 2008 at 11:05:36 AM EST
[ Parent ]

I'm just not certain (none / 0)

The wording is a little vague, that's why I mentioned it:

I hereby verify that my 2008 general election contribution may be designated to the 2012 Senate election. I designate the entire amount to the 2012 primary election. However if I have already contributed to the 2012 primary, I designate any amount in excess of $2,300 to the 2012 general election.

Depending on how it's laid out (are there check boxes?), it might not be 100% clear that she's not talking about the presidential election when she talks about the "2012" primary... but even if she's talking about her Senate primary, I guess I'm wondering why she, Hillary Clinton, would even need that much money for an incumbant's seat primary in New York.  Isn't she inevitably going to keep it?  Wouldn't she rather save the money for the Senate general election, or is that not normally possible?

I'm admitting my lack of understanding in how campaign finances are transferred, I guess.  I apologize if I sounded skeptical, but I do think that Clinton is doing the classy thing, it just doesn't seem 100% clear from the information presented in this diary.


In this avalanche, the pebbles get to vote.

That One/Another Fella '08

by Dracomicron on Tue Jul 15, 2008 at 11:29:46 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Perhaps it does seem like a lot of money, but - (none / 0)

for one - she does have the ability to transfer some of it to other candidates or to party coffers.  She was criticized for sitting on such a large amount two years ago, when everyone knew she'd be running for President; in 2012, with Obama running for re-election, she may have thoughts of using it to support other candidates.

There are options other than the skeptical ones.


by aggieric on Tue Jul 15, 2008 at 11:39:29 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Let's just agree that there's not enough info (none / 0)

I think both of us have fair points here.  Clinton has been going a long way towards assuaging my skepticism of her from the nasty primary fight lately, but the money issues are still a sore point for those of us who don't like the idea of anyone else paying off, say, Mark Penn's outragious and counterproductive fees.

I, personally, have a personal feeling towards the Dalton Hatfield $440 and believe strongly that it should be returned because she did not become the nominee... I guess that's just what I, myself, would do in Clinton's situation.


In this avalanche, the pebbles get to vote.

That One/Another Fella '08

by Dracomicron on Tue Jul 15, 2008 at 11:47:29 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Let's just agree that there's not enough info (2.00 / 1)

You folks have come up with around 100k while we have raised around 4 million for Obama's GE fund. Her grassroots has raised between 6-10 million on their own to pay down our debt with no assistance or help from the DNC or Obama. You folks aren't paying for jack. I think it's fair to say that your concern is simply nothing more than trolling. You really should stop the talk about Dalton Hatfield, it makes you come off as petty and small. They are engaged and involved which is a lot more than I can say for some people.


by Iceblinkjm on Tue Jul 15, 2008 at 12:09:59 PM EST
[ Parent ]

There has been no (none / 0)

confirmation or evidence to substantiate the 6-10 million dollar claim.  A legitimate newspaper would report about it if that claim were true; so I remain skeptical of the claim.

Obama's people need to start ponying up for her debt, enough with the machoness and bs.  The best that can be done is probably $6 million, but that's better than a lousy $100,000.


by Blazers Edge on Tue Jul 15, 2008 at 12:16:34 PM EST
[ Parent ]

"You folks?" (none / 0)

Iceblink, you've not exactly had the best record here, but I'll try to take you at face value.  

What do you mean by "you folks" and "we?"  I'm not disparaging anyone's fundraising for their candidate.

As for Dalton... no.  I feel strongly on the issue.  I'm not just talking about it because it sounds bad for Clinton; it's an issue that is of personal importance to me because I relate to the boy's story and admire him.  I want him to get his money back.  I want Clinton to understand the depths of his sacrifice and acknowledge that the money shouldn't just go to paying Mark Penn, a man who, even by Clinton supporter standards, does not deserve the money he is owed.

If that makes me look small, I'm fine with being small.


In this avalanche, the pebbles get to vote.

That One/Another Fella '08

by Dracomicron on Tue Jul 15, 2008 at 12:24:48 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Let's just agree that there's not enough info (none / 0)

No, we Obama supporters raised the four million, it's you guys who can't get your act together.

See what I just did?  It's what you did.


I have that readiness.
by Jess81 on Tue Jul 15, 2008 at 01:47:49 PM EST
[ Parent ]

please provide documentation (none / 0)

that Dalton Hatfield and/or his parents have not recieved letters like the ones described above and have not responded to them AND that HRC has refused to return it?

Fancy way of saying put-up or STFU.


by zerosumgame on Tue Jul 15, 2008 at 05:26:32 PM EST
[ Parent ]

I don't have anything (none / 0)

That's the point.  I want to know.  If Clinton put the money she got from Dalton in her general election fund, so that she would have truly earned his sacrifice, then he would get the letter above.  If she took it for her primary fund, then it would have been just another drop in the bucket of her large current debt, perhaps to pay for Mark Penn's horrible advice.

Basically, I want to know if Clinton and I see eye-to-eye on this issue.  It's one of the few gut reactions I had in the overlong primary.


In this avalanche, the pebbles get to vote.

That One/Another Fella '08

by Dracomicron on Tue Jul 15, 2008 at 06:33:43 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: I don't have anything (2.00 / 1)

then.ask.her.

all your post was is a swiftboat type smear based on nothing except your fevered dreams of getting a gotcha against "that woman". how noble of you...


by zerosumgame on Tue Jul 15, 2008 at 09:52:32 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Ask her? (none / 0)

I don't have her on my speed dial.  


In this avalanche, the pebbles get to vote.

That One/Another Fella '08

by Dracomicron on Wed Jul 16, 2008 at 03:39:58 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Come again? (none / 0)

She seems to understand this, from what I gathered in this diary.  Why don't you?

What do you mean by "why don't you [understand this]?

What I understand is that she can ask her supporters or the people that donated to her to continue to help her? That's why I had to turn down a Obama supporter other day asking me to donate to Obama while Hillary is in debt.

I believe he should ask those millions of supporters that vigorously supported in the primary to do so.

Now, if Hillary is on the ticket, then, I may think about donating to him, but I can't hardly guarantee a vote for him otherwise. As far as I'm concerned, I can save my gas money and stay at home. Even though I may have used McCain as an option, I personally could not do that, but a no vote is something quite possible. Of course, if I was the only one who believed this, I wouldn't blame democrats to be worried, but many Hillary supporters are taking this stand more vigorously than myself.


by Check077 on Tue Jul 15, 2008 at 03:21:44 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Eh, nevermind (none / 0)

This doesn't seem like a constructive argument to be having right now.  I respect your right to do with your money and vote what you will, and we'll leave it at that.


In this avalanche, the pebbles get to vote.

That One/Another Fella '08

by Dracomicron on Tue Jul 15, 2008 at 03:31:36 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Come again? (none / 0)

A no vote is an extremely stupid thing.  Its selfish, lazy, and one of the most unpatriotic things you can do.  I have a hell of a lot more respect for the people who voted for Bush than the people who didn't go out to vote... the ONLY exception I see is a family emergency or other medical condition that is sudden... even the bed-ridden can get an absentee ballot.  While I advocate voting Democrat, Personally I'd rather someone vote Republican or for Nader or Barr than NOT VOTE AT ALL.

Sorry, but people who don't vote...even those who claim for "political purposes" are selfish, lazy jackasses who do not GIVE A DAMN about our country.  Be part of the process or STFU and stay out of politics and don't bitch when whomever is President does something you don't like because you were too self absorbed to vote.  You want to leave your presidential ballot blank in protest... fine.... but to not vote at all.... those people are worse than worthless...


http://www.imvotingrepublican.com/ McCain Sucks!
by yitbos96bb on Tue Jul 15, 2008 at 10:32:09 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Come again? (none / 0)

She hasn't said anything about a 2012 Presidential run... Besides she is UP FOR RE-ELECTION IN 2012!!!!!  She got relected in 2006!


http://www.imvotingrepublican.com/ McCain Sucks!
by yitbos96bb on Tue Jul 15, 2008 at 10:26:16 PM EST
[ Parent ]

It's for her Senate run. (2.00 / 1)

This is exactly what a loyal, Obama-supporting Democrat would do.


by Geekesque on Tue Jul 15, 2008 at 10:28:08 AM EST

Hmmm (none / 0)

So back to my favorite topic, the money.

I have prided myself in trying to expertise my way into campaign finance laws.

I want to cry foul, but from what I see refund or rolling into next senate run seem like the only two legal and ethical scenarios.

What happens to that money if she is nominated to VP.

I feel like Lester Freamon from the wire :)


by DemsLandslide2008 on Tue Jul 15, 2008 at 10:41:13 AM EST

Re: Clinton Asks To Keep Donor Money for 2012 (2.00 / 1)

Kind of hard to run for Senate when you're running as VP for a second term. ; )


Mooseburgers? Careful Sarah. Moose bite back!
by spacemanspiff on Tue Jul 15, 2008 at 10:42:46 AM EST

Re: Clinton Asks To Keep Donor Money for 2012 (none / 0)

I wonder what would happen in that case...  could she save that money?  


http://www.imvotingrepublican.com/ McCain Sucks!
by yitbos96bb on Tue Jul 15, 2008 at 10:23:50 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Hmmm pt .2 (none / 0)

Another finance question, could a politician in the same scenario as Hillary give the donors the option to forward that $2300 GE donation to the DNC?

I have had concern for a while that the DNC would be able to raise money at the same rate as the candidates.
Im not even too sure how they raise their money, as I have never been solicited to give them money.


by DemsLandslide2008 on Tue Jul 15, 2008 at 10:48:23 AM EST

I believe so (none / 0)

I think Dean gave his money to the DNC, didn't he?


In this avalanche, the pebbles get to vote.

That One/Another Fella '08

by Dracomicron on Tue Jul 15, 2008 at 11:32:57 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Hmmm pt .2 (none / 0)

Many Clinton supporters would never want their money in the DNC. At this moment, they are perceived as villains in the eyes of at least 50% of Clinton supporters. So, that option is a no go as well.


by Check077 on Tue Jul 15, 2008 at 03:24:04 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Hmmm pt .2 (none / 0)

Which is ironic since over half the DNC supported Clinton in the primaries.  But yes... most despise Dean and a few others in upper leadership.


http://www.imvotingrepublican.com/ McCain Sucks!
by yitbos96bb on Tue Jul 15, 2008 at 10:34:31 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Just a suggestion (none / 0)

you should make it clear that she's talking about her Senate reelection. At first glance I thought she was basically admitted to wanting Obama to lose so she can run again in 2012.


The American people; they were for the war before they were against it.
by nrafter530 on Tue Jul 15, 2008 at 11:11:33 AM EST

Re: Just a suggestion (none / 0)

I pulled the title from the article. I was not clear about the intentions, that is why I presented this article for discussion. I felt the 2012 referred to in the article should have read 2008, but again I'm unclear, b/cause it sounds like she's got a pres bid in mind from the info from the "form".

I could be wrong..  :)


by Mae Scott on Tue Jul 15, 2008 at 11:19:46 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Clinton Asks To Keep Donor Money for 2012 (2.00 / 1)

Now you all know that she really wants to keep that money to do three things:

1: Keep Bill in hookers;

2: voice lessons to perfect her 'evil'cackle;

3; Buy every PUMA member a trip to Graceland.

Of course, the difference in my comment and the more subtle inference of the diarist is mine is up front and completely insane, and the diatrist's is well, just trying to make something nefarious out of something routine.


Hell's bells, even the GOP didn't have to crucify Eisenhower's record in order to make Reagan their 'saint'. We can have two great ones, you know?
by emsprater on Tue Jul 15, 2008 at 11:27:35 AM EST

Re: Clinton Asks To Keep Donor Money for 2012 (none / 0)

The diarist is not implying anything nefarious.  She's just reporting what she read online.


Another Clintonista against John McCain
by psychodrew on Tue Jul 15, 2008 at 11:32:33 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Does this mean the debt is gone? (none / 0)

I hope so.  Isn't this kind of rollover thing fairly routine?


by JJE on Tue Jul 15, 2008 at 11:44:00 AM EST

Re: Does this mean the debt is gone? (none / 0)

No.  The general election money could not be used to pay off the primary debt.  She's asking whether the person wanted the general money back or have it be like they've donated to her Senate primary.


"No government has the right to tell its citizens whom to love. The only queer people are those who don't love anybody." - Rita Mae Brown
by auboy2006 on Tue Jul 15, 2008 at 11:51:52 AM EST
[ Parent ]

I know (none / 0)

but didn't Kerry do this with his GE money?  I'm asking if it isn't fairly standard practice to ask donors to allow their contributions to one campaign to go to a subsequent campaign by the same candidate.


by JJE on Tue Jul 15, 2008 at 12:06:04 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: I know (none / 0)

they usually transfer money if the campaigns are for a different office.

Its standard practice, and only a newbie would think its something scandalous or write a diary about it


vote blue in 2008
by sepulvedaj3 on Tue Jul 15, 2008 at 03:30:52 PM EST
[ Parent ]

oh the dramatics (2.00 / 1)

There have been a ton of messages from the campaign throughout the last few months asking donors who gave more than 2300 if they wanted their GE money back.

If you did not respond and tell them to give it back to you, they then asked if you wanted it forwarded to her Senate Re-election campaign.

This was over the last month as well, culminating in a hand written letter.


vote blue in 2008
by sepulvedaj3 on Tue Jul 15, 2008 at 12:05:19 PM EST

Re: oh the dramatics (none / 0)

That's a framer... although I'm guessing if you donated the max for both then you probably got a meet and photo or something like that.


http://www.imvotingrepublican.com/ McCain Sucks!
by yitbos96bb on Tue Jul 15, 2008 at 10:24:55 PM EST
[ Parent ]

I highly suspect that (none / 0)

any money that is rolled over from the General to her 2012 Senate run can not be reallocated to a Primary and/or General presidential run in 2012 without express permission by those donors anyway, and there is a high chance those persons would donate to a re-run anyway, so personally I see the whole thing as moot. Either the money is used for her Senate reelection, or if (buddha forbid) Obama loses this year perhaps it can be reallocated again, with permission, for another shot at the crown. Money is tricky, for example are these donors then allowed to donate to her future race/s if their money this year is used in that future race?

But, controversy wise it is a big meh. EVEN if it is used for a primary run (presumably not against a sitting D president). It is more pragmatic than anything.


by notedgeways on Tue Jul 15, 2008 at 02:39:23 PM EST

Re: I highly suspect that (none / 0)

I'm not sure why it wouldn't be able to...  the moment it goes into her Senate account, its a Senate Donation.  Just as she transferred money into her account from her senate account, she should be able to do the same logically.  It makes sense and if... god forbid, something happens and McCain somehow wins... I would want her to have that boost as she would have the 2012 race locked up fast unless Al Gore runs.


http://www.imvotingrepublican.com/ McCain Sucks!
by yitbos96bb on Tue Jul 15, 2008 at 10:38:00 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Clinton Asks To Keep Donor Money for 2012 (none / 0)

Well at least we know if Obama wins (which he will), Clinton will be in the Senate through 2019. That's good.


Restore America's Strength.
by RJEvans on Tue Jul 15, 2008 at 05:10:35 PM EST

Re: Clinton Asks To Keep Donor Money for 2012 (none / 0)

LOL... I'm pretty certain that Hillary in the Senate is like Ted Kennedy... the only way she's NOT in is if SHE decides not to be in it... I can't see a scenario in which she loses in NY without some major scandal... and even then, I'm not sure she'd lose.  


http://www.imvotingrepublican.com/ McCain Sucks!
by yitbos96bb on Tue Jul 15, 2008 at 10:39:33 PM EST
[ Parent ]


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